ST LOUIS WINGS & RIBS ~ Oakville ON

Just before the Canada Day long weekend, some collegues of mine organized a small retreat out at the University of Toronto Mississauga campus. It was a great 2 days of collaboration, goal setting and planning on a campus with lots of trees and deer everywhere. Work yada yada yada  the best part was going to Mandarin for lunch buffet, and then everyone going 'we should go for wings for supper'. How can I say no to that? 

Not far from campus was St Louis. I've reviewed one location St Louis in the past and they weren't my fave. But I won't lie, I had been back to that location (this chain has exploded like crazy) and I had some good wings, so I thought it was time to re-review this wing chain. St Louis can be divisible amongst wingists - purists say no because they are not traditional wing (I used to be under the perception they were a baked wing, but I was wrong), but others love the unique flavour that is produced through the marination and the style of sauce.

This particular location was quite strange in that the building was built in a box store mall, but, like in the middle of the parking lot thoroughfare/street, so it's tall and narrow. There's a little balcony off the back with a patio. The place was pretty empty on a Wednesday night so we pretty much could sit where we wanted.

The menu was looked over and it was clear we were all going to have wings. But to suppliment that, several of us shared a platter of nachos.

It was a large pile of nachos. Lots of toppings, with sour cream and salsa on the side. No guac though. They also use queso/cheese sauce instead of shredded cheese - which depending on your tastes is plus or a minus. Also noticed they used triangle chips compared to the round chips of years ago.

Our waitress Patricia was friendly. She took our orders and after a bit all our wings started coming. By the end of the evening however she went missing in action delaying our eventual departure by a significant amount of time.

The Crew: Dave, Heather, Alykhan, Virginia, Scott and me.

I felt a little centre of attention talking about hot wings, the blog, judging and all things wings. This was a great crew because everyone likes wings and everyone was up for having photos be taken.

Back to St Louis wings, an order of wings come with a side of fries. Some of our crew substituted for salads, and some followed my suit in ordering their onion chips. I love onion chips - little golden nuggets of goodness.

The wings come with St Louis famous packaged dill dip. Not bad with the wings, but great for dipping the onion chips in!

Wings come in orders of 1lb or 2 lbs. We were hoping for some sort of platter deal for the group, but they didn't have any.

There are 16 flavours of wings. The wings themselves are marinated in a 'signature' spices before they are deep fried, then tossed in sauce.

The wings are small to medium sized wings in length. However they are very meaty wings and the chicken itself is very tender. The skin is crispy, but slightly softens as the sauce is thick.

Most of the group went with either mild or medium. Dave went with Suicide. I went with their hottest, Hotter Than Hell. Some wing swapping went on, and some people felt the burn of Hotter Than Hell. It isn't the hottest sauce I have ever had, but I have to admit it has a good kick with a lot of flavour.

The sauce at St Louis is thick like a BBQ sauce, but it has unique spice flavour to it. It really is not like any other wing.

FINAL SCORE:  I'm still not impressed with the size of these wings. Not the smallest out there, but not impressive. They are crispy yet tender inside. The sauce is unique and does not taste like your standard wing sauce. Some won't like it, but I have certainly come around to it. They wouldn't be my go-to wing, but I can appreciate them. 6/10

As for the group - lets do another wing work retreat soon!

St Louis Wings & Ribs
2508 Hampshire Gate, Oakville ON (and other locations)

stlouiswings.com

St LOUIS WINGS & RIBS

"Devilishly Good"

Well, ever since passing through the Atrium way back when (as reported HERE), I've been eagerly anticipating the opening of St Louis Wings and Ribs. And I wasn't alone. Ryan and I had made a pact to go to the opening night and review the place, but St Louis opened without our knowledge by about a week. So we picked Thursday as our lunch time, and gathered Julianna and Shobha to come along in our excursion.





The Atrium is a strange little mall in downtown Toronto, housing various offices, a grocery store, food court, some stores and 3 restaurants: Red Lobster, The Pickle Barrel, and Spring Rolls. What it didn't have was a pub, and now that void has been filled. The closest pubs in the area are the Wolf and the Firkin, and The Devil's Advocate, but they are a couple blocks north. South there is the Marriott Hotel's Characters pub, but it just doesn't have a social feel. No, St Louis can take advantage of the corporate world upstairs, tourists from Nathan Phillips Square, the medical block close by, and us. It sounds like a good combination.




St Louis even has a patio. Its not huge, its not nice, but a patio in the city is prime real estate. With the wind it was slightly chilly, so we decided to sit inside. The interior is pub chic; fancy enough for suits, but comfy enough for the general beer chugger. Its not huge inside, but its perfect I think for their customer base.

We had noticed that part of the restaurant was not yet complete. At one point the manager, Manu Gupta (who used to work in the same lab complex as Shobha and Ryan) came and sat with us and we asked about the unfinished area. He said that the area might be renovated in the future for a party room or some such concept. Its a good idea and it leaves him some expansion if needed in the future. But before we talked to him about any of this, we had ordered and consumed most of our food.








The NEW SCORE

STYLE: baked, possibly fried first
SAUCES: mild/medium/hot/suicidal/hotter than Hell/honey garlic/hot'n'honey
/au natural
SIZE: .5 /2
HEAT: hotter than hell 6/10
CRISPINESS: 1.5 /3
WETNAP FACTOR: 2 /5
PRICE: $9.95 for 9 wings (small), $17.95 for 18 wings (large)
SIDES: fries/onion chips 5 /7
WETNAP/NAPKINS: 8/8
WING NIGHT:
M=wings (30) & 60oz draft $25.95
T=9 wings $7.25, 18 $13.45 6pm-close
F= Ribs & Wings $14.45
SU= 20oz Pint & pound of wings all day
OTHER/SPECIAL: wing bowls, dill dip, unlimited wetnaps, patio, onion chips
(NO FREE POP REFILLS)

TOTAL: 23/35

So much to say about these wings, where does one begin? I had a love-hate relationship with these wings so its difficult to get it out there. Ok, lets start with the wings themselves. They are medium sized wings - not too small, not really big. They are meaty and you can't really complain about the chicken itself. However, for $10, I really want a jumbo wing. Yes I got a big side, but I would always prefer giant to variety.

Where the review gets complicated when it comes to the sauce. St Louis is unique in that they seem to bake their sauce right into the wings. Its a smokey flavour full of spice and taste, but low on heat. On my Hot wings, they was a sauce drought, but where other wings places rely on the sauce for their wings flavour; these guys have it in the wing itself.

There is a great debate in the Toronto wing world about St Louis vs Duff's for wings, and that's because they are two very different wings. Duff's is traditional Buffalo style, deep fry and Frank's hot sauce and butter. St Louis is dry rub spices cooked right into the wing. I understand the St Louis side - flavour filled chicken. But I'm a traditionalist, and my heart lies with mouth searing Buffalo sauce.

As always, I ordered the hottest on the side. Hotter than Hell was brought to me in a little bowl, which I promptly dumped over my wings. My dinner companions were shocked, having first tried a slight dip taste-test. The sauce was at most 30 000 Scoville units, which in my book isn't very hot ( I can comfortably consume at least 150 000 Scoville units of heat). It was a slow burn which was close to making me cough in the back of my throat.

When Manu the manager came to sit with us, Shobha told him of my disappointment of heat with the sauce. He seemed excited by the challenge and said he had something special. He came back with another little bowl of hot sauce. When asked what it was, he said proudly, "Hotter than Hell" to which we all said that was the hot I was not suffering from. He went from proud, to shocked to saddened. I try to comfort him by saying that I have been eating hot sauce since I was a kid and he said, "so have I, but that stuff brings me to tears". In the end, he said he was going to work on something that reached my level of tolerance.

Julianna was working, so she ordered and ate quickly. She got an order of the honey garlic wings which looked wonderfully wet in sauce. She didn't finish them all, but she seemed to like them.

Shobha, our resident vegetarian opted for the Thai salad. When asked what she thought of it, she said: "tasty and filling, for a salad." The menu was a difficult choice for her, with very few non-chicken/pork options so it was good she could find something satisfying.

Ryan went with the Nachos. He is to Nachos as I am to wings. Lord of the Nachos (maybe a companion blog Ryan, hmmm? A better tittle would be "Nacho Nacho Man, I want to be a Nacho man"). His review of this Tex-Mex creation was decent. The nachos were "good, but the type of chip" was problematic; a thinner, triangular tortilla chip is much more conducive to chomping and consuming.

Ryan ordered on the side, and my combo came with onion chips. I love onion chips and it hasn't been since my childhood that I have had a good feeding. When I was a kid, this was a staple of the Kentucky Fried Chicken dinner meal, back before it was KFC, or 'mega meal' name came to be, and there was always a plastic Col. Sanders money bank across the counter.

Apparently, no one else remembers this side dish and for a long time I thought it was regional to my part of Ontario (South-Western Ont.), but I know we had it up North at my grandparents (in the Karwatha region). Anyways, they are a delicious accompaniment, especially with the wing-dip that comes with my chicken, a dill sauce the heightens both the wings and the onion.

FINAL SCORE: I like the location, everyone seemed to enjoy their food, and we got some one on one time with the manager. I love the wing bowls, the dips, the onion chips, and an original take on wings. I liked that there are lots of wing specials, but the specials aren't financially that special. I think the wings need to be bigger, or cheaper, but because its a chain, the individual changes that are needed can't happen. And when it comes down to it, I'm a wing traditionalist and that's where my mouth and my heart lies. 23/35

St Louis Wings and Ribs
595 Bay Street (The Atrium Mall)
stlouiswings.com

St Louis AYCE Boneless Wings 2019 - Ottawa Clyde

It's become an annual event. All-You-Can-Eat (AYCE) Boneless Wings at St. Louis Bar & Grill. ALL. YOU. CAN. EAT. I went last year, documented the event, then never posted (maybe one day I will in a Lost Review). But I was determined to post this year and to eat a lot of chicken. Yes it's not chicken wings, but it's chicken and sauce and that is still very good.

LJ and I went on a weekend afternoon after running some errands. It was cold, snowy, and having worked all morning long I was ready for a feast. We went to the St Louis on Clyde ave in Ottawa because it was the closest for us and it's a nice location (not that the other isn't, to be honest, I've never been there to know).

The promotion is all over the restaurant. This location is clean, still looks new, and has a wide variety of customers; there were seniors playing cards, college dudes watching the game, a girls afternoon out. And then us. It was a lot busier than we expected for the middle of the afternoon. Our waitress was also the bartender, was taking care of everything. There was another waitress who was clearly on break, reading a book in a booth in the corner. There was another staff that was just chilling at the bar (maybe she wasn't staff, just wearing St Louis clothes?).

I had seen the AYCE "All-Meat-Treat" special on social media that has been going on all January long. It took a while before we could get to go.

How does it work?

For $17.99 ($1 more than 2018) you start with an order of 8 Boneless Bites which comes with their blade fries and Garlic Dill dip. Then, when you order the next time, you HAVE to get the fries and 8 more boneless bites (this was different from last year when it was 8 bites & fries, and then like 4 bites in every order after that with or without fries). It's dine-in only (obviously) and you must purchase a large drink. We were also told that everyone at the table needs to order the AYCE so that people don't sneak and share.

There are 29 flavours to choose from (really? 29? Couldn't have had one more to make it an even 30?) and really, the big advantage of AYCE is getting to try as many sauces and rubs as one can. To spoil the ending, LJ only did 2 rounds and I did 3, giving us a chance to sample 5 different flavours.

We waited a while for our first order to come - it seemed to take forever, but then again, everything does when you are hungry. We were given cutlery, plates, extra napkins and wetnaps for cleanup. We also both got water and I think Diet Pepsi's (with free refills). Generally when you are trying to successfully do an AYCE, you want to avoid water and especially pop as this is just filler. However, this is a salt heavy meal so drinking lots was unavoidable.

The fries that come with their signature fries, which I know the cut as blade fries. They are thick yet almost wavy cut, frozen, then fried on site. They aren't bad fries and are great for dipping. Our first batch that came were terrible though - over cooked and too hard to chew. Subsequent batches were nice, crisp and fluffy potato inside.

Round 1 we didn't eat them all because they weren't very good. Round 2 we ate more but planned on not eating so many to not fill up, but because we waited in between orders for a long time (not due to St Louis purposely delaying but because of business of the establishment) we ended up snacking too much.

You also get their Garlic Dill dip. This stuff is awesome. Move over ranch. Blue cheese, meet a real contender for a great creamy wing dip. It's mostly dilly, a slight hint of garlic. It's just really good. Perfect for the fries, and necessary for some of the boneless wings. Last year our server brought us soo many containers. This time it was one per order, but she did bring an extra one when requested.

The actual 'boneless wings' or 'all-meat-treats' are obviously not wings at all, nor are they chicken fingers or tenders. These are a range from nuggets to chunks. What I mean is that they are not uniform cut (say like a McNugget which has 4 shapes) but range in size from small pieces to large chunks. From the photo above you can see this is a relatively large chunk bigger than a fork - the smallest morsels you can pop in one bite, but the above I would need to take 2-3 bites. They are all breast meat as far as I can tell, and they are quite meaty.

Each piece has a not-to-thick seasoned breading on it. They are very salty, even before the sauces. They have a light crispiness to them. The meat itself is tender. I would say that in all our orders they were deep fried just right, although the longer they sat out, the tougher they got (not a fault of St Louis, just when we were slow or saving some into the next round).

We had 2 rounds in which we each got a different flavour, plus I did one extra round before I had to give up. The sauces or dry rubs we got varied in how well they were coated. Round 1 we got Spicy Garlic Parm & Buffalo Ranch. Round 2 was Chili Lime & Mississippi Honey BBQ, with Round 3 being simple Hot.


ROUND 1

SPICY GARLIC PARM

This was LJ's first choice. This is a creamy garlic and Parmesan sauce with some hot sauce mixed in. They were not that well covered in sauce (the photo shows one bite on the right with next to no coating, while the one of the left is pretty wet). LJ found them pretty flavourless, and I found them just creamy with some heat (because my bites had no heat - see Buffalo Ranch).

BUFFALO RANCH

So I was surprised I ordered this as much as you. It wasn't what I thought it was; I've had this before and I forget what it is, which is why I have this blog - to record to know the next time! See I knew what I wanted the Mississippi BBQ flavour at some point, but I wanted something saucier and in the realm of hot first. At the last moment after my waitress asked what I wanted, out came Buffalo Ranch. I was thinking this was Buffalo sauce with ranch drizzled over it. It is not. It is Buffalo AND Ranch mixed together.

They were ok. They were barely sauced so I really couldn't taste anything. Not very buffalo, kinda ranch bland. It was not a good start.

Also, don't tell anyone from Buffalo NY about this - they get testy about Ranch and Buffalo being in the same sentence.



ROUND 2

CHILI LIME

This was one of the Dry spice options, a mix of chili spice and lime. It had a slight oily quality (maybe to help the seasonings stick?), and the dominant flavour was black pepper. There was a little chili heat, and almost no lime flavour to be found. And salty. Maybe that oiliness was lime juice, but even if it was, it was hella-weak. They were not bad, but would have loved more lime flavour.

MISSISSIPPI HONEY BBQ

This is one of my favourite flavours at St Louis by far. This BBQ sauce is sweet and tangy and savoury. It's a lighter BBQ sauce, and it has no heat. It's sticky and it just oozes over the chicken. It just pairs with the boneless bites so well. Each nugget was well sauced this round, but I would have loved a pool at the bottom for extra dipping.


ROUND 3

It was at this point LJ was really debating on a third round. She still had some chili lime bites left, and she was curious to try the Thai Coconut, but didn't want a whole order. In the end, she gave up. I was going for round 3 for sure, but I didn't know if I was going to do a 4th round or not. But I'm not a young man anymore and knew 3 was my last. So what would I get for my last round?

HOT

OK so I didn't go very adventurous. I went with Hot because I wanted a wet wing and something simple and spicy. It was good, and it was Hot level spice.

I used to be mad at St Louis back in the day at their Hot, because they weren't the Hot I was used to. I wanted a hot Buffalo wing, or standard pub wing, and this hot is different. It took me a long time to appreciate the flavour of this wing not because it wasn't good, but because it was different. It has a spicey, peppery flavour that is deep, and savoury. There are subtle spices I can't identify, that work really well on the wings. The sauce works well with the bites as well though.

They were good, but shamefully I couldn't eat them all (close, but just couldn't). I know why St Louis doesn't allow take-out - otherwise everyone would be taking home a free order home - but it's a shame because of the waste. I hate wasting food.

We were too stuffed for dessert, but I scoff at their menu stating "Man cannot live on wings alone". Yes, yes I can.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

I had lots to eat. The event was hit or miss, with some bites not sauced enough, or some fries overcooked. But overall the chicken itself is good. The sauces were a mix, some I would get again, and others overlook in the future. I will be back to do this event again, but probably not this year.

TIPS

• A regular order of Boneless with fries is $14.49 and an order of 15 is $18.99, so as long as you get two orders, you've made the AYCE deal worth the money.
• Bring a few people with you so that you can each order something different and share and sample.
• Plan your flavours - know what you want next before your order arrives so you can tell your waitress right away because you don't know how long your next refill may take.
• Don't drink a lot. It's hard with all the salty food, but don't fill up.
• Try not to fill up on fries. They are there to get in the way of the meat treats
• Come HUNGRY

TO ST. LOUIS

• Don't make the fries mandatory. We all know they are filler, but it just leads to wasting. Give a big order to start, but don't make it mandatory with refills. Push water and drink refills instead if you want to slow the chicken consumption down.
• Add free veggie sticks to give a cleanser for all the salt, but also to act as filler.
• Make the first round 8-10 bites, but allow those 8-10 to be split into 2 different flavours like you used to. Then make refills 4-5 at a time or again 8-10 with splits allowed.

No matter what, this was a tasty excursion that led to a desperate need to nap after eating.

St. Louis Bar & Grill
1331 Clyde Ave #101 Ottawa ON (and other locations)
stlouiswings.com

BlogTO's The Best Chicken Wings in Toronto

If your not familiar with blogTO, its a blog all about Toronto that is written by various bloggers who are artistic, political, explorers etc. Plain and simple. I didn't start reading this blog until after I left Toronto to keep up to date about what is going on until I get back (if I ever do).




One of their articles is "Best Of" Toronto guides that list things like Best Poutine, or Best Fish and Chips. These guides are interesting collections of what might be the best in the city. While these Best Of guides are assembled by an individual, the rankings are not done by blogTO, but rather by the readers. This is often forgot by people who comment after because these lists can often cause head scratching when inferior places are on a list, while expert places are left off, and this leads many people to get upset and rant.




Until recently, I looked at these lists with a grain of salt, seeing places I had never heard of before while again, ones that deserve recognition go unmentioned. But it was never personal. Then, they did "Best of Chicken Wings." You are entering my territory now, and I gotta say, not impressed. I've basically copied the whole article here and added are my comments on A) the rankings & B) the comments from other people on the net.

1. ALLEN's: reviewed them HERE. The Manhattan Capone Wings were a tasty alternative wing, but they do not deserve to be #1. They are a decent size, but they need to do a lot more be a great wing.
   
2. PETER's: Never heard of the place. They look interesting, spiced with a bowl of hot sauce, but I doubt they are #2 (but then again, I haven't had them).
   
3. REBEL HOUSE: Never been, but a baked wing better than deep fried, I have never experienced.
   
4. DUFF's: I have yet to find a better wings in Toronto. Huge wings, excellent heat levels, great Buffalo wing flavour. My wing choice.
   
5. ALL STARS: This was one of the first places I had been to that served a bajillion sauces. Good sized wings, great tasting flavours - they deserve to be on this list, even if they are waaaaaay up North.
   
6. BISTRO: Another place I have not been. But they are described as the original St Louis wings. Well, wait till I talk about St Louis.
   
   
   
   
   
   
7. ST LOUIS: Bah! I figured they would be on here because there is a crazy collection of people who like this chain. The quote from the review: "Big, plump, tasty wings in a basket with excellent fries" is a joke. Small, over priced wings with a strange baked in sauce. They are not in my top 10.
   
8. SQUIRL'S: Another place I have never been to nor ever heard of. I'd check it out if I could tomorrow.
   
9. MITZI'S SISTER: Another never been, never heard of. Oven roasted doesn't excite me, but they sound like they have some interesting wings. I'm curious to try, but again doubt the legitimacy of this place being on a top 10 wing list.
   
10. WHEAT SHEAF: Tried and true pub wings. Big, spicy, and 3 wing nights. This place is here for a reason.
    
    

Definitely several places that are out of left field for me. I spent several years in dedicated research to find good wings in Toronto and many of those places never, ever came up. That doesn't mean they aren't good, but it boggles my mind a bit. But I wasn't alone. Here are other people's comments that reflect some of my own:

• beveridge & mike and I agree that Ein-Stein's should be on this list. Granted, they aren't the best over Duff's, and Wheat Sheaf (due to their rubbery meaty-ness) but the sauces and size make them worth while.
• kelly is also surprised about St Louis. And cities all over Ontario need London's Ring-A-Wing.
• sippy: I agree, where is Sneaky Dee's?
  
  
  
• many comments are echo'd again, but lets not forget:
• Patrik is right about Wild Wing and Moose Winooskis, even if the latter isn't in TO.
• CL on - yes yes yes, the Crown and Dragon.
  
  

• joey and Elle is bang on about St Louis. Why?
• David on, you are right and wrong. MCW are snobby, Duff's is vinegary based just right. All Stars does have good sauce and St Louis is so wrong about "hotter than hell".
• BillyWarhol, Wing Machine wings are tasty. Small and expensive, but tasty.

I still don't know how one votes in these lists. I've searched their website to no avail. So who gets to vote and how? I suspect from the votes that the types of people voting are those that think of wings as an after thought. They don't take wings seriously, and are more likely to have wings when its a shared plate amongst a group of friends of coworkers than someone who truly appreciates good chicken wings. I know I'm sounding like a snob, but many of these places list baked, sweet/bbq sauced wings. Its sad. I feel the need to end on a quote:

"I've said it before and I'll say it again...democracy doesn't work." Kent Brockman